She's Gone from Suck to Blow OR It's My Ship and I'll Lock if I Want To.

[ivydoor]

I love my new icon. *pats it* ... *snogs Hiro* Okay, I'm good. *g*

So. Apparently it's that time of the month again and fandom has her frilly knickers in a twist. Never in my life have I seen a fandom meta more about their fellow fans than they do the subject of the fandom.

When you call someone "batshit" and then blast them for feeling threatened, or complain that a certain ship is the majority and you're sick of seeing it and "why can't they move on already?", then bitch when the majority takes their ball home by locking their posts, you'll have to forgive me when I say you're being a tad hypocritical.

You can't have it both ways. You can either A) Play nicely and stay out of their sandbox OR B) Accept that they've locked you out of the playground and you'll need to find some other kids to steal squee lunch money from. Simple as that. Shippers are not your personal emotional punching bags and they don't have to stand there and keep taking hits if they don't want to. They have every right to lock their posts and keep you out. They have every right to start their own community newsletter based on their ship when they get tired of clicking harmless looking links that turn into shipper bashing threads that would make Simon Cowell blush.

I do lock my fandom thoughts, not because I'm close minded or hate conflict (even though I do hate it) but for the comfort of everyone I know. That and I have better things to do than deal with those who would rather pick a fight than move on. Moving on? Why does that sound familiar?

This isn't a long and insightful meta. I'm pretty much leaving it here as I don't really feel I can say anything I haven't said before or that hasn't been said by folks much more eloquent than myself.

Play nice, stay out of my sandbox and I'll stay out of yours. Sound fair?

Comments

[dettiot.livejournal.com]

[stands up and applauds]

The logic that I've seen used . . . it is not Earth!logic. To continue your metaphor, why can't fandom just accept we've got a lot of sandboxes, and we don't have to be all in one big sandbox?

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Thanks. :)

I don't get it either. You'd think they'd be ecstatic abotu a D/R newsletter because that means more D/R shippers dropping off of who_daily and by association, less D/R for who_daily to link to.

Teh logic, it fails.

[katesutton.livejournal.com]

I can't even believe this needs to be SAID, but...it does. If fandom wants me to shut up about what I like, then I will. I'll go elsewhere and have fun. What's the problem, again? That you can't bash on my fun any longer?

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

I know! This is stuff I have to deal with my 6 & 7 yr olds. I have to explain constantly that if he pokes his sister, she's not going to share the toys with him. And when you're acting like my 6 yr old? Yeah, you pretty much fail at life.

[dark-aegis.livejournal.com]

*sigh* I've come to the conclusion that there really is too much of a vocal minority in fandom that grouses over petty things. *shakes head* I'm all in favour of the play nicely in the same sandbox, it's big and you don't have to ever meet, plan of life. Sadly, a lot of times that just doesn't work. *shakes head*

Maybe someday the conflict'll die down. I just really loathe ship-wars. Or really any sort of conflict. It's rather annoying and just not worth it. I'm here for the porn fics anyway ;)

Lovely icon :) Hiro is love *nods*

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Ha! Your icon is love, too.

It's a shame that these folks (who are a vocal minority, as you say) are making fandom miserable for everyone else. I can share the sandbox with those who play nice, but at this point, I don't think it's going to happen.

Heh. Well, if you're here at my journal for the porn, prepare to be disappointed. :) I'm all for it, mind you, I just don't dare attempt to write it.

Ship-wars are just odd to me. I could care less if someone ships Martha. Just so long as they don't do the whole "You're doing it wrong!" thing with me, I'm okay.

Hiro is my sekrit luv. Shhh...Don't tell DT. )

[leighleighla.livejournal.com]

*grimace* Still with this bullshit? You'd think people would just git ever it by now. Sheesh.

*sits in the Ten/Rose sandbox and builds a sandTARDIS*

*sticks tongue out at the bitchiness of fandom*

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Srsly. *shrugs* Oh well.

*joins in the sandbox and builds sand!K-9*

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

I think part of the issue stems from when self-proclaimed neutral Who-post aggregrators have, in fact, a strong anti-D/R bias. If they want to hate D/R, that's their prerogative, but to push such an agenda via the choice/description of and prominence give to certain posts while claiming to be neutral - well, that's just Fox 'News,' isn't it?

I do continue to subscribe to who_daily just because there's D/R fics I'd have missed otherwise, but as the_spdn continues to grow I may drop it entirely. I certainly haven't followed any non-merchandise links in eons.

I find it highly amusing that the Marthanite Army is still hell-bent on foaming at the mouth about OSK and SPDN, when their favorite character - who is the freaking co-star of the show, regardless of your opinion of her - doesn't even rate the cover of the UK DVD release!

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

It is very "Fox News" and that's why I quit subscribing to them a long time ago. Occasionally I'll seek them out if I want to see a particular piece of news or something like that. Beyond that? Meh. I get enough fic & icons from my flist. With the_spdn now I can find the discussions I would want to participate in too. :)

I don't get why us going off on our own warrants so much hatred. Isn't that what they wanted? Or is it that they want the unwashed heathens converted to their particular mindset?

[ginamak.livejournal.com]

Oh for the FSM's sake. I guess I'm not a big enough fan, then, as I can't be bothered to care what pairing someone else prefers, much less get my panties in a twist if it's different from the one that moves me. How dare I just enjoy myself and the new friends I've made in this fandom, when it's obviously far more important to make myself miserable over someone else's preferences, and let it take all the joy out of the experience for me. My word, you'd think I actually want to LIKE the show or something. I am deeply, deeply shamed.

/sarcasm

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Ha! Soooo true. And here I thought I was supposed to be using fandom as a means of escapism to get away from my frankly overwhelming life. I had no idea I was supposed to be miserable here too!

[honorh.livejournal.com]

. . . I really don't want to know, do I? I'll just take my li'l Nine/Rose-loving self and find me some nice porn fanfic to suit my needs.

Incidentally, what is this the_spdn, and what does "SPDN" mean, anyway?

[04nbod.livejournal.com]

the definition is on their user info page- its quite sweet!

[04nbod.livejournal.com]

I'm compelled to ask for links. I don't know why reading anti rose wank makes me laugh so much!

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Basically the whole thing was essentially what I posted about. You're not missing much, really. I just don't want to put links in an open post that anyone can see and then be accused of sending D/R to battle.

[irishlullaby.livejournal.com]

You know... part of me really just wants to go into the whole 'Frenchman taunting King Arthur' routine when I read all the people whining about the shippers. Because, really... honestly... they just keep wanting to be bullies and keep trying to get us to fight with them when really... All I want to do is tell them 'Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elder berries!' and then tell them to go away before I taunt them a second time.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

HA! I saw a "speed of an unladen sparrow" icon somewhere the other day but can't think of where. I meant to save it.

Honestly, it bothers them more to be ignored. For us to take our ball and go home is the worst thing we can do to them.

[okelay.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU!

i really dont understand why some ppl have a problem with D/R creating a newsletter.

a friend asked me "but why? who_daily covers it all anyway, right?"

and no, not anymore, cause too many ppl are sick of the wank, and hatred and have locked their posts, cause you post a squeeful review or fic or discussion and before you know it, people youve never heard or seen before are on your blog telling to stop being stupid, to move on and to get over d/r.

i do not hold to that.

i was incredibly happy about the creation of the spdn. i spend a good amound of time in the doctor who fandom and most of it is spend of the d/r sandbox.
i dont have doctorwho friended cause all i see there is wank and rosehate, much like in house_md where they hated all house/cameron shippers.

i dont go in there and tell you what i think of martha or why is DT so great and how D/R is my OTP, i stay in my sandbox. all i ask is for you to stay in yours.

"i got no need to beat you.i just wanna go my way"

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Aw, you're welcome.

Yeah, the big thing about the_spdn is the locked content. There is so much discussion out there but it's so hidden away, folks don't know it's there.

I'm happy about it too. :)

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

Whenever I try and attempt to figure out DW fandom politics, my brain threatens to explode. I mean... I've been in wanky fandoms before! This one is just so... baffling!

For the first time since joining Who fandom, I don't feel anxious at the thought of my Who-related thoughts being linked to on a newsletter. I mean... that probably says something. [Bad username or site: the_spdn / @ livejournal.com] deserves a huge hug.

Also, big WTF on the Ten/Rose mudslinging. Um, Nine did exist. Kay. Thanks.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Dude. I have the biggest headache from this stuff.

Well, that and Marvel Alliance on the PS3 which my son insists on turning up to 11.

And Nine is a part of the ship too, plskthx. And you know what? I'll ship 11, 12, & 13 as well.

[jesidres.livejournal.com]

Oh god, what wank did I miss now? I swear, I miss all the good stuff.

Probably for the best, I guess? 'Cause apparently I'm a horrible person.

But I agree wholeheartedly- and the really amusing bits is when we call them on their hypocrisies about f-locking, they either shut down, call foul or try to change the subject reaaal quick. WHEE.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

God. That icon. It's just so...

Yeah, I really think that certain people just won't be happy until we stop shipping entirely. Must be so frustrating going through life having this need to control people's thoughts and being completely impotent to do so.

[jedi_of_urth]

I think part of the problem is, what they really want is for us to be wrong, and since canon doesn't support us being wrong, they have to make do with trying to get us to say we're wrong, and feel that if they beat us down enough eventually we'll agree.

But when we take our ball of squee and go elsewhere, places they can't follow, we leave them behind and they never got us to say we were wrong, we haven't even really gone away in the sense that we slinked away in defeat we just picked up and left, so they get angry. And we went somewhere where people won't tell us we're wrong and we can look at canon and squee with people who understand.

Like I said on another post recently, why did it have to become us vs. them?

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

That right there is the problem in a nutshell.

It became us vs. them when they made it that way. I could give a rats ass less what's going on with lifeonmartha, so why should they care what we do in OSK?

[measi.livejournal.com]

Might I link this post to my discussion thread that I posted earlier today? Because really... this is perfect. :)

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, yeah. Sure thing. I'm very flattered.

[starlightmoonla.livejournal.com]

*Applauds your post as well*

Seriously will they ever get tired of of this? I'm pretty sure they could find something else to do with their time. If they're acting like this because the Doctor/Rose newsletter was created then they can take their time and make one for their own ship.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

I don't know if they'll ever tire of ranting about us.

It exhausts me just thinking about having to maintain that level of outrage.

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

*applauds* I was too distracted yesterday by the latest LJ fun-n-games to properly appreciate this post. But you've put this so very nicely.

And this? This is perfect:

When you call someone "batshit" and then blast them for feeling threatened, or complain that a certain ship is the majority and you're sick of seeing it and "why can't they move on already?", then bitch when the majority takes their ball home by locking their posts, you'll have to forgive me when I say you're being a tad hypocritical.

Because it's utterly ridiculous that we get called out for still shipping Doctor/Rose, and then get called out for taking it where people who can't stand the ship can't see it.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Because it's utterly ridiculous that we get called out for still shipping Doctor/Rose, and then get called out for taking it where people who can't stand the ship can't see it.

It's confusing isn't it? I want whatever they're on that allows something like that to make sense.

[sugarsicons.livejournal.com]

My reply is late. I just got back home. (Flight cancellation and rebook for a flight 5 hours later + 7 hour flight = home now finally.) But I just have to say that I love you. Not really in direct relation to this post, but just a general feel good feeling for you. All happiness and warm fuzzies and cuddles and fuzzy bunnies and furry creatures and sunshine and butterflies and whatnot.

Am I far too sensible in thinking that, if it doesn't directly effect you, and the indirect effects to you are not negative, what's the problem? This entire thing makes my head hurt. And I don't think it has everything to do with my being somewhat fried when it comes to mental capacity at this particular moment. I just don't get it. Am I stupid for not getting it? Can someone explain it to me like I'm a 5 year-old? Because I just don't seem to understand.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Awww. You're such a sweetie. *hugs* Hope you've gotten settled in. How was your trip?? *g*

You're not stupid. I don't get it either. *sigh* You'd think they'd be thrilled that we've gone off on our own, but apparently it's not good enough.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

*sigh*

Yes.

Now, I've unflocked my journal again, because I dislike having it locked, but I fully understand why people want to keep their spaces safe. And when there are people going into journals to tell others how wrong and unhealthy they are (for shipping a couple!)... yeah, it feels kinda aggressive. And then, when the people who are being attacked leave to go elsewhere, they get insulted for that, too.

Seriously, D/R shippers are routinely called 'batshippers/batchippers'. How is this not hostile and rude? How can that be seen in any other way?

I don't give a fuck what other people ship, so why do they care so much that I ship Doctor/Rose?

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

It would be like me calling them batshit for liking Martha. I really don't care for her. I tried in the beginning, I really did. But I grew to dislike her attitude as people like her tend to grate on my nerves IRL, and by the end of the series I was apathetic at best. But to you see me stalking Martha comms or even Doctor/Martha comms? No. I stay in my sandbox. Is it really that hard?

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for this!

I'm getting so fed up of the sheer abuse that gets thrown at this ship. I like what I like and I don't see why it has to become a political issue. Some of the more general communities (not mentioning names) seem to be completely OK with Rose bashing but as soon as someone says anything vaguely negative about Martha they get jumped on. I don't like character bashing of any kind but I wish it wasn't so unbalanced because I daren't read the comment threads sometimes due to the sheer amount of vitriol.

With regards to friends locking, how on Earth could that ever be a problem? I will never understand some of this stuff. Whether a person thinks they had good chemistry and that's it or believes it was true love and she'll be back next series; if they are posting in a D/R community, why should it matter? But because some members of the fandom make it matter, they shouldn't be surprised (or whiny, offended or otherwise upset) when people start to friends lock.

It's always the vocal majority that cause problems though, I have non Doctor/Rose friends and OMG SHOCKHORROR we get on rather well!

[04nbod.livejournal.com]

I'm getting so fed up of the sheer abuse that gets thrown at this ship. I like what I like and I don't see why it has to become a political issue.


there is very little reason other than its popular. Now those that used to ignore it have got their own ship they feel should top all others but other people aren't jumping on the bandwagon so they get annoyed. Of course this isn't everyone but I've seen one sane person get their views polluted by others and its horrible to watch knowing you can't say anything without getting crapped on.

[cerridwene.livejournal.com]

Got linked over from a friend and wow, thank you so much for saying this. It really is sandbox mentality. Maybe I'm just odd and batshit insane and everything else they claim us to be but...why on Earth would I want to sit my ass down in the middle of somewhere when all people are gonna do is while and bitch and moan when I can sit in peace with other people just like me.

I wish they'd stop acting like 5-year-old bullies who have no one to steal sand from. They're just making themselves look stupid.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Exactly. It must take so much energy to get so bothered by the actions of people you don't even know doing things that you don't like behind closed doors. It's nuts. I have enough drama and stress in my life without creating it for myself.

[ladyofgallifrey.livejournal.com]

Hi - new to the SPDN but very much "veteran" D/R shipper. In fact, before I just saw your page, ivydoor, I was going to get a friend to make me an animated icon that says "It's my ship and I'll squee if I want to!"

I don't want to irk anyone by asking this question so I hope it's ok and that no one will take it the wrong way - I'm asking as it relates to f-locking of all kinds but mostly, why we have it here. I thought we were "safe" here? I was surprised to see posts on our page that are locked. If we're members of this comm, we're still not allowed in on certain posts? Just kinda made me feel a bit unwelcome. I was going to try linking my LJ page to here but I'm not sure about that now. I was hoping this was going to be a place where more interaction could happen.

I had no idea there was such viciousness going on "out there" in the rest of DW fandom. Is it more from the 'old school' who maintain the Doctor can never fall in love with one person and have that person be THE love of his (many) lives? It just makes me sad, is all. I love this ship more than any other I've fallen into and I would never kick sand in anyone else's face about what they like to 'ship' - why such negativism directed at us?

Sigh.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

*waves* Hi! And welcome aboard.

I'm pretty sure all of your questions have been answered by email at this point, but if you're confused by anything else, please don't hesitate to ask. :)

Unfortunately, there has been a lot of hate directed at shippers. I have a feeling a lot of it is just misdirected anger towards New Who production and the shippers are just an easy target. Fortunately, there are some great comms out there for shippers to connect with one another, allowing us to ignore the madness unless we seek it out. Sometimes I get brave and poke my head out into the larger fandom and a rant like this is the result.

[arcvert.livejournal.com]

Over here from the SPDN. =D

Shippers are not your personal emotional punching bags and they don't have to stand there and keep taking hits if they don't want to.


Thank you. I'm personally getting exhausted of feeling hurt because other parts of Doctor Who fandom feel that it is necessary to throw out insults at a whole other part of fandom, apparently not realizing that it hurts the individuals as well.

Incidentally enough...you mention that most of your shipper and fandom thoughts are kept locked. Do you mind a mutual friending with me so that I might enjoy your excellently worded posts and rational logic? =D

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

If you think it's exhausting being on the receiving end, can you just imagine how emotionally toxic it must be to keep up that level of venom? I don't know how they do it.

Sure! I'm always open to new friends! :) Can't exactly claim to be rational and loquacious all the time, but I try. Occasionally. Heh.

[debs7.livejournal.com]

People just plain confuse me these days and sometimes I wonder if they are even watching the same show I am. When all that hoo-ha started up about the D/R shippers, I read a few posts, shook my head and then burrowed back into my sandbox.

the_spdn is the best thing ever and I may in fact even drop who_daily because of it.

Speaking if which - would you mind terribly if I friend you? I need more D/R friendly people on my list :)

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Oi. Tell me about it. And you know, the temptation to completely pwn them with the facts of the matter is so strong but I don't give in to it. Why? Maybe because I know I'm not going to change any minds in that camp and why should I intrude on their fun? If that's how they want to see it, so be it. I think they couldn't be more wrong, but really, why should I care? It's not like I have to deal with them.

I <3 the_spdn. It's such a godsend.

Sure thing! :) I can always use new D/R friends myself.

[zippogirl.livejournal.com]

Jeez, it's like a freakish sense of deja vu. A few yeard back when Buffy and Angel where in full swing, there was plenty of shipper wars about Buffy/Angel against Buffy/Spike. And there was name calling, insults being pegged at frightening velocities, basically the Buffy/Angel people (which was me) were being called naive, childish, unable to move on (see? Deja vu) and agreeing to paedophiliac relationships, I kid you not. But thank god that's all over now since the Buffy fandom has become much less active and then I fall for Doctor Who.

And now it all starts again.

This show blows me away, Doctor/Rose blows me away and now I'm being thrown into another shipper war. But it's not just a shipper war, it's also a character attack on Rose herself. Notably for not being the typical companion, well I'm so sorry that Romana, Ace and all the other Old Who companions didn't show up and give Rose lessons on how to be a 'proper' companion. When she met Sarah Jane, it was too late, the 'damage' was done (that episode was such a turning point for Rose and Sarah Jane was at least sympathetic towards her and understood completely) The Doctor and Rose love each other, did I think they were going to get married and have Time Babies? No, I did not.

the_spdn was a brilliant idea, I don't know why it was a shocking move. As many people have already said, did they really expect us to hang around and get insulted for voicing our opinions. Not agreeing with us is fine, but having a shout about it will only make them look petty, childish and plain stupid. But if it gives them grief, good. Lol.

Mind if I friend you? I only have a couple of Doctor/Rose people on my flist, the more the merrier, right? Lol.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

It's funny, I keep hearing Buffy fandom being used as a parallel. I never really got into the show myself, so this is new stuff to me. I'm more of a Fark political flamewar veteran, which can get just as ugly as DW fandom, but my previous fandoms have pretty much been pleasant experiences.

I don't understand why they care so much about it. Either we're in their faces and bothering them, or we're keeping to ourselves and bothering them. As someone else mentioned, it really does make it seem like what they are bothered by is the fact that they can't have their fun bashing us any more.

Friend away. :) I'm really a friendly sort when I'm not ranting. Heh.

[thehornedgod.livejournal.com]

When you call someone "batshit" and then blast them for feeling threatened, or complain that a certain ship is the majority and you're sick of seeing it and "why can't they move on already?", then bitch when the majority takes their ball home by locking their posts, you'll have to forgive me when I say you're being a tad hypocritical.

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to lay it out there like that.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. :) I just felt it needed to be said.